How do you sell someone on getting over it?

[Conrad Cook]

I have a friend, who's a good-hearted person, but who has a lot of hot buttons around the opposite sex. He tends to mis-understand things in ways that make him angry.

That's his pattern: he gets angry at inappropriate times and in anti-social ways, makes a scene, and then later apologizes. When people know him, they mostly wait for him to calm down. I tell him to knock it off, but it just causes more squabbling.

Now, this guy's a hypnotist. And my arguement to him has been: apply the process and the work to yourself and get over it. But he won't have it: because he's adamant he's not being irrational. "Women are really like that." And he gets angry if I suggest that he use hypnotherapy, which is interesting in that he's a hypnotherapist.

In my opinion, he's not doing anyone any good -- not the cause of better sex relations, not himself, not the people around him. I'd think he'd want to apply the process to himself even if he's acting rationally, since hypnotherapy doesn't alter rational opinions.

So, how do you sell a hypnotherapist on hypnotherapy?


Conrad.

[Doreen Cohanim C.Ht]

You don't, he will be ready when he is ready, after all it seems that he doe's not think that he is the problem, but you do.
Correct me, If I got it wrong... I say let him learn from his mistake.

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht

[Kathleen Hanover]

Hi Conrad,

Your friend has a right to his oddball attitudes and inappropriate behavior (as long as it doesn't cross over from inappropriate to criminal), just as you have a right to not spend time with people who make scenes and get angry at people who try to help them.

Your friend doesn't need help, nor does he want it. His stuff works for him, and apparently he doesn't experience enough negative consequences to be convinced he has a problem to needs to change.

But apparently you have a problem with his attitudes and behavior. So, next time he rings you up to go out, tell him you're tired of the scenes and you're glad to spend time with him alone at your place, but not around women or in public unless he's willing to behave like a grown-up.

My guess is he won't like that, which will cause another squabble, which will be even more reason to not hang out with him.

Perhaps if enough of his friends refuse to go out with him, and refuse to support his tantrums, he may decide that his friends are more valuable to him than his beliefs about the irrationality and wrongness of all women.

Or not.

Kathleen
The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet™
Click @KathleenHanover to follow me on Twitter

[Scott Cooper]

Hey Conrad,

Your a good friend to be looking out for your friend. It sounds like this hot buttons have been created through his life experiences. Very likely that he has been rejected and is now acting out against his fears, being rejected again. This is his current pattern. He must feel that it is working for him, or he would not be in this pattern. Perhaps his role models also used these distructive, anti social patterns as well.

How about this for a new friend pattern... When friend is about to make a scene,, just say a buzz word to him such as "Toxic Time" and than vote with your feet and walk away, make sure that he notices that you are moving away when he is about to erupt so you are not part of the toxic scene.. So there isn't anyone reinforcing his childish behavior.

Yet, know that what he is doing, to him, feels right.. He is likely presuposing "Here we go again" in his unconscious mind, than erupting. So let's agree, that even though he is a friend, you can give him very clear ques to what we will tolerate and what we will move away from..

I do not believe, based on your info on your email, that he is in the least motivated to make change. What he is doing, he feels is working, even though, as a friend, you would expect more from your friend...

And for your self preservation, to help you tolerate your friend,, how about pretending he has a pacifier and a diaper when this is going on so at least you can enjoy his outbursts,,,

And when he's in "I'm sorry mode",, do not make eye contact,, just let it slide by without affirming that all is good, as it is not,,

Your friend feels all is good or he wouldn't be acting out,,,

One day, he will find the blessing of his behavior and he will choose the opposite behavior.. hopefully.

Have a great day in Bean Town..

Scott

[Susan French]

Well, first, I think you have to be sure that your assessment is correct and that it's not being colored by your own filters.

Secondly, people develop responses to things as they go through life and some they will feel more strongly about than others.

Is this person having difficulty in his life? And it what ways? Is he unable to form or sustain relationships? Is he unhappy about the way his life is working or is it your opinion that he's dysfunctional?

And...sometimes people modify their behavior because they are able to recognize when their response is a little over the top. But it's not always instant and the person making the assessment here is not necessarily right.

Can you give us more specifics? Are you certain that your assessment has merit...for him? Perhaps its a difference in perception?

I think most people have "hot buttons" and that they come from both life experiences and the way the individual assesses what's wrong or wrong in the world.. Sometimes the person needs to get over them, if he agrees and if he is messing up his life because of them.

But sometimes, for instance the people who fight for women's rights, civil rights, children's rights, the right not to be bullied, elder rights, become outrages at something in society and make an effort to both not participate and to speak up or actively work against the injustice. Thank God somebody does.

Look at that little girl that was gang raped in Oakland while people watched and did nothing bc they didn't want to get involved or it wasn't their battle. What about that kid that got murdered in Chicago by some F**khead and nobody called for help? What about that little gay kid out here who got bullied so much (with no damned adults stepping in, like teachers and principles) so much that he committed suicide. What about the the kid in Palmdale who pushed another kid to far and in the heat of a single moment, bludgened the other kid with a baseball bat. What about that jerk-assed Mother (of all things) who bullied and brutalized that little girl on the internet and made her feel so bad she commited suicide. That mother is in jail now, as she should be. What the hell was she doing tormenting a teenager...her next door neighbor? Some people find that offensive. I do. I think she got what she deserved. And that sentence (which, btw, has been minimized a bit) will send a good message to some other stupid idiot who thinks it's funny....hopefully. People didn't stop drinking drunk until society took a more intolerant stand on drunk drivers. Look at the stats. It's helping. People in my family find designated drivers, as they should. But God Forbid if anyone said anything ten years ago. It was politically incorrect to complain about someone "who just had a few and drove anyway."

The attitude of "What's the big deal? Everyone does it." was clearly wrong. People spoke out and many called them troublemakers, and wrong, and do-gooders. It was a matter of perception. Some people "got it" more quickly than others that it was criminal to drink and drive. Finally out society caught up and started really enforcing the law. Sometimes it's society's consciousness that needs to be raised but the first people to start saying something are usually demeaned and laughed at.

I think attitudes of "it's not my problem, man" are potentially problematic and have been for a long time. But the onlookers obviously thought there was nothing wrong.

In fact, there's a name for that behavior which I can't think of, but I'll go find it and post it. There was a book which I think was titled "Bully, Bullied, and Bystander." Books don't get written and published when there is no need. When that little 15-yr old was gang raped, I remember hearing a term for the syndrome of shoulder-shrugging and minimizing, but again, I have to look for it..

These kinds of travesties disturb some people and they speak up and take action to stop it. Others shrug their shoulders, walk away and say "not my problem." Which behavior is most civilized.

So who's right?

It's really a matter of opinion and perception, at least I think so.

Susan

You, as a kind and considerate and caring friend can gently show this person other perspectives but you don't have the final say on whether or not he needs or wants your opinionI agree with Kathleen.

Susan

[Conrad Cook]

Thanks, all, for the thoughts.

Doreen,

I don't really like to give up on people; then again, it's not my job to make other people's decisions for them (nor do I have that power). So I'm looking for the middle ground between being pushy and walking away. What I currently do, which is to make my thoughts known when he brings it up -- when he's in the "apology" phase of his rant/apologize cycle -- seems not to make a dent.


Kathleen,

The social circumstance is a little more complicated than that; I don't control when he's moving in my circles. But I suppose I could ignore him when he starts tweaking out.

I'll contemplate it further.


Scott,

Those are interesting thoughts; I suppose it could be said I'm enabling his anti-social behavior by playing to his rant/apologize cycle. I should stop that, you're right.


Susan,

Your skeptical mind is always working! -- I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to furnish details, out of respect to him. And of course it's complicated, because you have a borderline point: it is proper to be motivated to change cases of injustice. However, when we get angry, we communicate less resourcefully, and that means we fail to reach people. So even if we support his agenda of putting women in their place, he ought not be doing it out of a place of emotion, but out of a place of resourcefulness.

It's peculiar to see you standing up for a borderline misogyinist; you're more broader-minded and more committed to procedural fairness than I realized!


Mr. Green,

That's a little more aggressive than I like to be -- which I know, may surprise those who I've argued with in the past; but my style and values tell me that it's okay to be overtly aggressive, but not covertly. But you do have a point about enabling the behavior, which at the very least I should stop.


Many thanks, again -- food for thought.


Conrad.


ps - Do hypnotists usually get angry when someone suggests they work out their kinks with hypnotherapy? I've had a few people tell that and it doesn't bother me.

[Conrad Cook]

Mr Green said:

Conrad,

It was only my Hypnotherapist answer that was intended to be covert.

My answer was trying to go as far away from being a therapist of any kind (as this is your friend, that knows your a therapist)

(Actually, I don't think of myself as a therapist at all, but as a hypnotist.)

Energetically, it sounds like he has become dependent on the response other give him to his actions. If you did as I suggested as talked about 'your other' friend like I said he may offer advice (which enter into 'his' model of his world) and he will be telling you exactly how you can successfully guide him, no?


paul ~

A peculiar and sneaky idea, but I suspect if I were to try that, he'd be on to me. I mean, he's not a dummy.


Conrad.

[Kelley Woods]

Hi Conrad,

Your post makes me think about boundaries...specifically, behavioral boundaries; how we devise our own and how we respond to others'. After finally coming to understand and value the importance of creating and maintaining social boundaries for myself, I often measure a client's interpersonal issues from that perspective.

An example I give is that, remember when you were a child and you would feel comfortable using certain language, be it body or verbal, around your friends? Not only did it seem appropriate and acceptable, but you might even feel left out if you didn't relate in that manner. Now recall how you behaved when you were at your grandparents' home. The disparity between the two scenes shows how you subconsciously adjusted your own personal actions according to other people's boundaries.

We establish and enforce levels of acceptance to which other people usually respond. That process can be labeled by a more common name: respect. Unfortunately, we don't always consider that we play a role in that and succumb to blaming others when they offend us. Also unfortunately, there exists the rare breed who is continually oblivious of how his actions affect other people and Kathleen had great suggestions about how to deal with that.

By the way, once I figured out the boundary thing, a few people "left" my life, but a bunch of new, wonderful ones entered. Guess how that worked out? :)

Best wishes,

Kelley

[Michael Ellner]

Speaking of boundaries -- This is an open website -- One has to wonder what journalists, critics or potential clients will make of a "hypnosis" website where experts discuss influencing people without their knowledge or consent!

I am trusting that every one reading this is familiar with the essence of meaning within: "With a friend like -Blank- You don't need enemies"

Perhaps they mean "friends" who think they know what's best for other people and try to influence them without their awareness or consent, because these "friends"answer to a higher power and know what is best for the people in their lives...


Please note: I am not saying that's what the quote means - I am just saying: "Perhaps?"

Something to think about or not...



Love and hugs-

Michael E.

[Susan French]

Conrad,

I think the piece of the puzzle that's missing is that we only have your opinion that this person is "throwing a tantrum" or that the person is simply stating an opinion that's different from yours. It sounds to me more like a disagreement over a point rather than whether or not this person needs to "change," "agree with your assessment," "has pathology" or is even being socially inappropriate. Or could this simply be a case of "can we agree to disagree?"

I think the idea of boundaries is a good one, always. When I have a disagreement about a point or an idea with someone and I get to an impasse, I usually ask if we can "agree to disagree." I usually then suggest that we don't discuss it bc we will obviously lock horns again.

I have had to do this with folks. We had to do this in my family (half of whom are conservative and half of whom are progressive). We're close. We love each other. But we had to agree to avoid politics...and that's what we do.

Before we did that, feathers definitely flew, but I never thought that the tempers were anything other than people getting overly agitated. We did the adult thing. We agreed to disagree and we agreed not to discuss politics when we get together.

Guess what? It works really well.

Susan

[Dennis Atkinson]

Since your friend is a hypnotherapist, he undoubtedly realizes that he would have to take a close look at his behavior when in hypnosis ... something he is afraid to do probably because he does not want to revisit the emotional pain causing his behavior ... but he re-visits this pain every time he acts out ... and it is not going to "just go away".

Like Doreen says, he will be ready when he is ready. He has not hit bottom yet, relationship wise, and that appears to be what will be the driving force to bring about the willingness to change.

There are some good books out there. My favorites are the Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus series ... but he has to be motivated to read them ... you can't do it for him.

Since ego appears to be a factor, you could suggest fear as the reason he is resistive to hypnosis, and he may submit just to prove you wrong ... but again, he may be resistive unless while in hypnosis he relizes the need for change.

If you are a good friend, all you can do is be there for him when he finally falls and is willing to take a good look within.

[Kathleen Hanover]

Hi Conrad,

Meant to share this earlier, but got distracted. Your friend's blow-ups are caused by his thoughts, which he believes to be "true" and "accurate" and "factual," which may be one of the reasons he feels his emotional state and behavior is justifiable.

Should your friend ever decide he does want to change (and he probably won't, as long as this stuff keeps "working" for him) you may want to share The Work with him.

The Work a very simple process of inquiry that allows a person to investigate, and perhaps discard, the thoughts that cause them to suffer. It's not hypnotherapy, so maybe that won't cause him to get all defensive. All the tools you need to do The Work are available online at TheWork.org and it's all free. It is fast, and (for me at least) incredibly profound and life-changing.

Again, The Work is only for people who are tired of suffering and want to end it. Some people get a lot out of suffering, and your hypnotherapist friend may be one of those people, I don't know. And if he does, it's none of your business! If suffering is his thing, you have no right to insist that he give it up. Your choice is to be in the room with it or not.

In fact, it might be fun if you do The Work on YOUR thoughts about your friend. Every time your thoughts about how he "should" be conflict with the reality of how he is, it seems to cause you to suffer. Reality always wins, so perhaps you could decide whether it's worth it for you to keep your anti-reality thoughts about what other people should do or not do.

Just a thought. ;)

Kathleen
The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet™
Click @KathleenHanover to follow me on Twitter

[Conrad Cook]

Susan French said:

I think the piece of the puzzle that's missing is that we only have your opinion that this person is "throwing a tantrum" or that the person is simply stating an opinion that's different from yours. It sounds to me more like a disagreement over a point rather than whether or not this person needs to "change," "agree with your assessment," "has pathology" or is even being socially inappropriate. Or could this simply be a case of "can we agree to disagree?"

Susan,

It's basically a coincidence that I disagree with this guy. I'm in favor of sex equality; he would say he is, but he has hot-buttons. But I really tell everyone I know who has a rant/apologize cycle the same thing: get it taken care of. Even when their rants are coming from a place that I agree with.

It's sequential incongruity. The cause is seen in the structure of a rant: the person who is carrying around bad stuff cycles on it in the background, getting progressively angrier, until they've built up this charge and something triggers it. Then they explode! -- Finally, coming down, they look at the same thing that triggered it, and since they're not carrying around that anger (at the moment) it doesn't make them so angry. And they look at the potential damage they've done their relationships, and feel bad about it.

Well, it's a better process than those who abuse and then feel good about it. I'm not aware of any way for those guys to draw themselves out of the spiral.

But, to address your "agree to differ" point -- I'm not interested in creating taboo topics in my life. I have good friends who are radical feminists who I often disagree with, and I have friends who are die-hard conservatives who I often disagree with. And we can talk politics because we keep an even keel.


Dennis,

Reading between the lines, I think you raise an interesting point about him being a hypnotist and having greater insight into the (temporary) discomforts of the process. I don't know; that could be. But isn't it a priority for hypnotists to undergo the therapeutic process themselves, and be relatively clear of emotional turmoil?

Your post reminds me of an account I read of an American Indian birth that went badly. During colonial times. The father couldn't stand the pain his young wife was going through, and so he went off into the bushes and killed himself. Which, of course, did his wife no good at all.

Aren't we obliged to work out our own stuff so that, unlike Bill Clinton, we don't feel our clients' pain? Isn't that the last thing we want to do, to put ourselves in a state where we can't reach people?

I don't know -- I'm just discouraged.


Kathleen,

Yes, I'm familiar with that process and that site. Good stuff, but not effective for everyone. (There's a step that some people can't follow.) Thanks for the reminder.


Conrad.