The Fourth Kind

[Robert Shanks]

I know this may seem a little strange, but has anyone ever seen the film "The Fourth Kind"?

I watched it this week, and was appalled at the way that the alleged footage showed people being hypnotized for regression into their past memories with no means of safeguarding them in place. I was taught long ago to ensure that the subject is kept from trauma, and have always taught others the same. Hypnosis means that the person doesn't just remember things, but literally relives the experiences in their mind when in the somnambulistic state. I see it as the equivalent of using live bullets in a reconstruction of a crime!

Does anyone else have any experience of seeing people repeating a mental trauma during therapy this way? I have had many cases where people have "re-lived" childhood abuse or traumatic events and come to me for treatment, and I have never once asked them to repeat the experience. Instead I resolve the issues, which then allow them to face the historical events without the pain attached if they choose to.

Does anyone here try to de-sensitize their clients by making them face their trauma? I just don't see the benefit there.

Robert

[James Hazlerig]

I haven't seen the movie, but I can tell you that it's pretty rare to see anything accurate or balanced in the media's portrayal of hypnosis.

There are regression-based methods that aim at bringing about an abreaction, though I suspect that the movie has grossly misportrayed those methods.

I usually employ double dissociation before taking a client back to a traumatic experience--but that doesn't make for good entertainment.

[Carlos Santillan]

I have not seen the movie but I did read about it.

One of the selling points for the movie, is that they display actual archival footage from sessions side by side with actor reenactments.

So part of the problem with this is that while I agree the media does not portray Hypnotism under a good light, the claim is that in the movie there are scenes taken from actual sessions, which is of concern

BTW: there is also another Hypno related movie making the rounds
The Pit and the Pendulum (shame they did this to Poe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDbKtfT03RU

[James Hazlerig]

That claim is disturbing. I suspect it's about as truthful as the Blair Witch Project's claims of authenticity.

I find it fascinating that when certain people use hypnosis to "recover suppressed memories," the same practitioner always seems to find the same kind of memories. One seems to get all the alien abductions, while another seems to get all of the Satanic Ritual Abuse. Add to that the ease with which false memories have been created in psychology experiments, and I really have to suspect that it's the practitioner creating these experiences, not the trancer remembering them.

Sometimes I wonder if there's anything we can do about the portrayal of hypnosis in the media. Some here have (imho, unfairly) blamed stage hypnosis for the PR problems our profession has, yet far more people have seen hypnosis portrayed in fiction than on stage. Furthermore, fiction slides right past the critical factor and shapes public opinion.

Carlos Santillan said:

I have not seen the movie but I did read about it.

One of the selling points for the movie, is that they display actual archival footage from sessions side by side with actor reenactments.

So part of the problem with this is that while I agree the media does not portray Hypnotism under a good light, the claim is that in the movie there are scenes taken from actual sessions, which is of concern

BTW: there is also another Hypno related movie making the rounds
The Pit and the Pendulum (shame they did this to Poe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDbKtfT03RU

[Brian David Phillips]

There are a number of reports based upon an "insider" of the production confirming that all of the so-called archival footage was just as staged as the theatrical footage, shot on a soundstage and then processed to look like consumer footage.

I haven't seen the film but can imagine that the hypnosis will be portrayed rather poorly . . . unfortunately, I've seen plenty of footage of genuine regressions that are much worse with all sorts of leading language and some rather painful sloppy work. If you're going to use regression then get some training in it from someone who actually understands clean session language AND has a clue how to properly clean the emotional charge without resorting to emotional torture. Way too many folks open up all sorts of garbage in a session and then the fifty minutes are up and they think emerging is all they need to do until next session. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

BTW, thanks for the link to the Pit and the Pendulum trailer, hadn't heard of it. We've all seen worse and we know it's craptastic and most audience members will realize it's fiction . . . most . . . unfortunately, not all.

All the best,
Brian
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

[Dennis Atkinson]

My wife was looking at going to the movie the other day, and she came across an internet preview of this movie The Fourth Kind. As soon as we began watching the preview, I knew that I had absolutely no interest in seeing it.

Based on that preview, I would rank this movie right up there with the Bullshit Show conducted by Penn & Teller ... both are put together merely as entertainment and both contain very little useful information - play on people's fear of the unknown, and you can sell whatever information you want as entertainment. I thought our species was supposed to be one of the most intelligent?

[James Hazlerig]

Dennis,

Any time I'm puzzled by human behavior, I remember an important observation someone much smarter than I once made. It really explains myriad confusing situations. It can be stated thus:

People

Are

Stupid . . .


Explains a lot, doesn't it?

With tongue only partly in cheek,

James

[Robert Shanks]

Actually I think it was said quite well in "Men in Black"

Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

*SMILES*

Robert

[James Hazlerig]

Unfortunately, I've encountered quite a few individuals who disprove that distinction . . .

Robert Shanks said:

Actually I think it was said quite well in "Men in Black"

Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

*SMILES*

Robert

[Scott Sandland, C.Ht.]

so I went last night to see the movie, and I think they did a good enough job portaying hypnosis to really scare people. I've heard that the "real footage" was fake and after watching this, I believe they are staged. Its a Blair Witch situation.

in the movie the two psychs keep intentionally inducing dramatic abreactions without taking any precautions of installing a safe resource or doing any sort of dissociations. During abreactions they jar the person back in a rather abrupt and unsettling way. Anyone who practices the way the psychs do in the "real footage" or in the re-enacactments needs a whole lot more training.

as an aside to help you calm your clients who ask you about it, the main woman being "interviewed" was wearing tons of make up to make her look scarier. They do all sorts of manipulative things to up the spooky factor. My brother in law, who is a cop, decided to investigate some of the claims they make in the movie. Bottom line, its bogus stuff that is a great premise for an alien abduction movie, but not the way things happened in real life.

have fun,
Scott

[Hugh Cole]

With apologies again to Jaynes ,,,, As craptastic (new word thank you Brian) as this picture is.. It will soak into the collective cognitive conciosness of the species and some people will adopt it as valid representations of what goes on in hypnosis. More properly what is possible with Hypnosis. I really don't know what you do to counter that except continue to put out good factual information. I have had two people this week ask me if I "do" past life regressions. I am wondering now if those conversations were inspired by this movie. Images from Trailers, cocktail and coffee hour conversations have a way of influencing folks who haven't seen the movie.
I agree with Scott that PLR is a hypnotic process that is easily susceptible to leading language, flights of fantasy and abnormally strong abreactions when done by a "less than skilled" practitioner. I would urge anyone who does PLR to get extensive training in it,
Bottom Line .. I think I am going to check out the movie now so I am better prepared to tell folks why it is ..... craptastic

Hugh Cole
The Pretty goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

[James Szeles]

It's just a movie. If you want to see a really bad movie in terms of putting down hypnosis watch "The Hypnotic Eye" if you can find it. I though "Paranormal Activity" was the better of the two films out now.

[Lauren Wade]

I loved Paranormal Activity even though I didn't get that scared. For my first horror movie, I was surprised. I'm using Paranormal Activity for inspiration for the book I'm writing. I love the stream of consiousness writing style...i'm so used to fragmented sentences in text hypnosis.

Is the hypnosis in The Fourth Kind even portrayed with accurate inductions?