What is trance?

[John Cleesattel]

Every now and then I encounter people who have varying opinions of what trance is and how it works. Just today I have read here where people think sleep is trance, or think that hypnosis doesn't need to involve trance at all.

So just what is trance?

In my formal training, I was taught "trance begins with 3 words....close...your...eyes." I have since found out that I was given misinformation about what trance was, and so that started me questioning everything, doing my own research, and writing a book about it, but that's another story.

Needless to say, that my own personal findings indicated that trance is a natural state for us as a species. Since the analytical mind can only focus on one thing at a time, we have to use a trance state to be able to multi-task.

Trance is simply a state where the reactive mind (subconscious) automatically reacts to outside input. Hypnosis takes advantage of this by realizing the outside input can be in the form of a suggestion.

To me; hypnosis is simply the means to induce a purposeful trance state. So it doesn't matter what method you use, if you have induced a trance state in someone, you have hypnotized them.

In our everyday lives, we are well used to using trance states with the conscious mind very active and aware.

Trance has nothing to do with if the eyes are open or shut, if you are nervous or relaxed, or anything else like that. The reason we use commands like sleep, relax, etc. is because for the most part, the subject is very familiar with the terms and understands how to automatically react to them, and it turns the focus of their mind further inside.

When ever our conscious mind is focused on something, especially on the inside of the body, a trance state HAS TO exist in order for us to keep maintaining.

A trance state does not bypass the critical factor unless the magnitude of the trance state (depth?) is sufficient to shut down that filter. We refer to that magnitude of trance as somnambulism, and during somnambulism our ability to determine what is real and true is impaired (what we call "the critical factor") which is why we get the trance effects and results we get with it.

I realize that we all have our models of hypnosis and trance, this is mine, and I would love to hear how you define trance.

John

[Jack Hirsh]

My definition of trance is very simple, "a state of focused concentration". In my mind hypnosis and trance are not one in the same. Trance is the state and hypnosis is the use of that state. What I mean by this is a person can be in trance but not hypnotized. Hypnosis begins when the trance state is used to bypass the critical factor and then acceptable suggestions are fired in.

Good topic by the way. I can't wait to see other replies.

~Jack

[Susan French]

If I'm not mistaken, the state we recognize as trance is when the brain wave frequencies slow down to Alpha frequency and a little bit of Theta frequency. The Alpha frequency is 8 to 13 cycles per second (or hertz). You can only go a few cycles per seconds of frequency into Theta before you go into the state we recognize as sleep.

I believe I also read that we go into alpha state every 90 minutes or so for about 15 minutes. I have a hunch (but have not read this anywhere) that the cognitive function (probably prefrontal cortex) disengages or relaxes and is less dominant. I think that what we metaphorically refer to as 'conscious mind' is the prefrontal cortex, the logical, reasoning part of the brain.

I have no clue what parts of the brain/body we mean when we say the 'subconscious mind',' I'd love to learn it if anyone knows.

I also believe that each brain wave frequency is present all the time at different levels of consciousness but one frequency becomes more dominant. I'm not sure about this though.

I'm always more comfortable when I take take something metaphorical (trance) and identify it in the physical and tangible, but that's me.

In my always present determination to take metaphors and make them tangible and concrete, I think of hypnosis as being the brain wave state that exists between a waking state and a sleeping state.

Susan
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[Hugh Cole]

Trance is what I am in right now, as I begin to imagine the best possible answer I can give you to the question "what is trance," Imagining that.. is a process of internalizing and accessing nominalizations that describe thoughts and concepts and subjective experiences I have had . Hypnosis is a process ... the process by which we establish trance. Trance is the establishment of a state of effective selective mental focus. (very simple and straightforward). When you add the condition of bypass of the critcal faculty you have somnambulism.,, The so called "hypnotic Trance". I think John, you and I are pretty much on the same page.

Hugh Cole
making them dizzy one post at a time

[bob burns]

I'm very comfortable with what everyone has said on this and I'm not strongly disagreeing with you Hugh, BUT is there then no difference between to be in trance or deeply in thought. I suspect there is and that it's the depth of that thought that decides whether or not the thinker enters the state of trance. But maybe that's what you implied?
I claim (Many hypnotists arer unhappy with me for saying this) that I have never managed to hypnotise myself. That's because, although I can enter trance extremely easily I can never get my critical factor to leave the room. And I think that this is normally done by someone else (a hypnotist).
I often hear hypnotists say to their audience: "You enter hypnosis many times in a day", but if the critical factor is still in place I'd suggest that although they are definitely in trance they're not really in hypnosis.
I for example often found myself in tears at watching 'Little House on The Prairie' (no comments please!) But, although I would have been definitely entranced at that point I claim I was NOT in hypnosis at any time.
Comments please...?

[John Cleesattel]

Bob,
I realize I have already said my piece in the intro of this discussion, but since you asked for comment, allow me to offer the example of learning to ride a bicycle. When first learning to ride the bike, we try to focus our attention on our feet, our hands, and where we are going, all at the same time, there is only one result. Crash. It is when we learn to automatically react to input from our feet and hands and just focus our attention on where we are going, that crash, turns into zoom.

This automatic reacting is what I describe as a trance state. With your example, deep in thought, that too is a trance state but not the deep in thought part, its the other part that handles your presence in the here and now for you while you are deep in thought. The same thing that drives for you when deep in thought on the highway, or pedals the bike while you look around. I hope that is a bit more clear.

John

bob burns said:

I'm very comfortable with what everyone has said on this and I'm not strongly disagreeing with you Hugh, BUT is there then no difference between to be in trance or deeply in thought. I suspect there is and that it's the depth of that thought that decides whether or not the thinker enters the state of trance. But maybe that's what you implied?
I claim (Many hypnotists arer unhappy with me for saying this) that I have never managed to hypnotise myself. That's because, although I can enter trance extremely easily I can never get my critical factor to leave the room. And I think that this is normally done by someone else (a hypnotist). I often hear hypnotists say to their audience: "You enter hypnosis many times in a day", but if the critical factor is still in place I'd suggest that although they are definitely in trance they're not really in hypnosis. I for example often found myself in tears at watching 'Little House on The Prairie' (no comments please!) But, although I would have been definitely entranced at that point I claim I was NOT in hypnosis at any time.
Comments please...?

[Mr Green]

To me 'a' trance is an internal process.

One that can involve all of the ways a person receives or transmits information through all of the senses. Visual, auditory, kinesthetic, Olfactory and gustatory.. and is a way of either creating, remembering or processing events or circumstances.
Often very specifically like going through a conversation that just took place, (and while going through the conversation having a mini conversation within 'myself' about how I might of said 'this' or 'that' or acted like this, or stood here and not there etc..) or quite generally like hallucinating while driving the car that I'm giving my acceptance speech at the Hollywood Oscars ceremony while everyone cheers me, and then playing piano in front of 20 thousand people while listening to a song on Classic FM etc..

The trance must have a connection to hypnosis as its not something that a person can automatically 'do' people often find themselves 'snapping' out of a trance like waking up, maybe this is where the process is deepened meaning that hypnosis actually is just a deep fixed trance, only it involves more of the clients focus as rather than a natural occuring trance it is manufactured to bring results, phenomena etc..

So maybe 'a' trance is hypnosis in it's naturally occurring form...?

Interesting question.

[Hugh Cole]

Mr Green said:

.

The trance must have a connection to hypnosis as its not something that a person can automatically 'do' people often find themselves 'snapping' out of a trance like waking up, maybe this is where the process is deepened meaning that hypnosis actually is just a deep fixed trance, only it involves more of the clients focus as rather than a natural occuring trance it is manufactured to bring results, phenomena etc..

So maybe 'a' trance is hypnosis in it's naturally occurring form...?

Interesting question.

Hypnosis is a process through which you obtain a guided directable trance. Trance is the state you obtain. There are many many unguided trance states, Trance is of course a naturally occuring state. It is how we, as upright biped trance machines, actually learn. In John's example, you learn things like balance and control and incorporate them as trance processes in your less than concious mind (no hypnosis involved) then you conciously "ride the bike", incorporating those less than concious learned processes,
As Hypnotists, we purposefully guide trance partners into a particularly useful state of trance called Somnambulism where anything we say becomes thier vivid reality... because... thier "imaginative involvement" is strong enough that they no longer analyze the suggestion. That is bypass of the critical faculty. There are of course many subjective qualities attached to somnambulism that can make it an even richer experience for some subjects ... but that's another thread,

Hugh Cole
Making them dizzy one post at a time

[Kelley Woods]

Hugh, I'd love to hear your's and other's thoughts on those subjective qualities...I'll watch for the new thread!

:) Kelley

Hugh Cole said:

Mr Green said:

.

The trance must have a connection to hypnosis as its not something that a person can automatically 'do' people often find themselves 'snapping' out of a trance like waking up, maybe this is where the process is deepened meaning that hypnosis actually is just a deep fixed trance, only it involves more of the clients focus as rather than a natural occuring trance it is manufactured to bring results, phenomena etc..

So maybe 'a' trance is hypnosis in it's naturally occurring form...?

Interesting question.

Hypnosis is a process through which you obtain a guided directable trance. Trance is the state you obtain. There are many many unguided trance states, Trance is of course a naturally occuring state. It is how we, as upright biped trance machines, actually learn. In John's example, you learn things like balance and control and incorporate them as trance processes in your less than concious mind (no hypnosis involved) then you conciously "ride the bike", incorporating those less than concious learned processes,
As Hypnotists, we purposefully guide trance partners into a particularly useful state of trance called Somnambulism where anything we say becomes thier vivid reality... because... thier "imaginative involvement" is strong enough that they no longer analyze the suggestion. That is bypass of the critical faculty. There are of course many subjective qualities attached to somnambulism that can make it an even richer experience for some subjects ... but that's another thread,

Hugh Cole
Making them dizzy one post at a time

[Mr Green]

I also will watch for the new thread, of course, so I can elaborate on my connection and understanding.

Kelley Woods said:

Hugh, I'd love to hear your's and other's thoughts on those subjective qualities...I'll watch for the new thread!

:) Kelley

Hugh Cole said:

Mr Green said:

.

The trance must have a connection to hypnosis as its not something that a person can automatically 'do' people often find themselves 'snapping' out of a trance like waking up, maybe this is where the process is deepened meaning that hypnosis actually is just a deep fixed trance, only it involves more of the clients focus as rather than a natural occuring trance it is manufactured to bring results, phenomena etc..

So maybe 'a' trance is hypnosis in it's naturally occurring form...?

Interesting question.

Hypnosis is a process through which you obtain a guided directable trance. Trance is the state you obtain. There are many many unguided trance states, Trance is of course a naturally occuring state. It is how we, as upright biped trance machines, actually learn. In John's example, you learn things like balance and control and incorporate them as trance processes in your less than concious mind (no hypnosis involved) then you conciously "ride the bike", incorporating those less than concious learned processes,
As Hypnotists, we purposefully guide trance partners into a particularly useful state of trance called Somnambulism where anything we say becomes thier vivid reality... because... thier "imaginative involvement" is strong enough that they no longer analyze the suggestion. That is bypass of the critical faculty. There are of course many subjective qualities attached to somnambulism that can make it an even richer experience for some subjects ... but that's another thread,

Hugh Cole
Making them dizzy one post at a time

[James Szeles]

Trance & hypnosis are states you experience when you stop using the other five senses. You stop thinking about outside events and focus on you (you mind) and your body. If your focusing on your mind and body you stop thinking about exterior things and events and it free your mind to relax and brings you back into the present.
James

[James Hazlerig]

"Trance" is a word I use when I'm too lazy to say "hypnosis." :-)

Truth is, I'm not really married to any definition of either word, but I think that every definition sheds some light on an experience that is very hard to express in words.

Thanks for stirring up the discussion, John.

[Adrian Tannock]

Great thread...

To me, the model which best explains trance* is the Woody & Sadler (2008) complex model of dissociated control in hypnosis. In hypnosis, the executive control is weakened, allowing subsystems of control to have greater control (corresponding with the 'reactive mind' John describes, I believe)...

This is compatible with models of cognitive psychology that differentiate between willed behaviour and automatic behaviour via the specification of an executive function of control, for example the model of action control proposed by Norman and Shallice in the 80s.

Back when I had the time to update my blog, I wrote a little post about these things here:

http://adriantannock.com/2008/07/11/wordle-will-and-more/

Cheers,

Adrian

* (Using trance and hypnosis - at least when describing these words as a verb - interchangeably, as is my right as an idiosyncratic being!)